posted 04-08-2008 04:31 AM            

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Going through my books recently I wondered when round castle-towers first appeared in the differnt parts of the medieval world. In Switzerland, they have been very common in the 13th century in the western parts of the country, under the reign of the counts of Savoy. I know that Peter of Savoy had strong connections to the royal family of England at that time...
When did round towers first appear in France? In England? In Romania etc.?

Thanks for some input.

posted 04-11-2008 03:34 AM            

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I'm interested in the first appearance of round Walltowers as well.

I know the romans built half-round-towers at the walls of some of their castellums, but I don't know if there have been any round castle-towers in England or on the continent before 1200 AD. Any examples would be welcome.

posted 04-11-2008 08:23 AM         

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Hi Merlin,
Kenyon gave plenty of examples, but no firm dates. Next best source is R Allen Brown, with his book 'English Castles'. So better settle down for a long type;
page 78 onwards;
Thus with stone keeps we find, on the one hand, that the rectangular form stubbornly persists to the end of the Middle Ages and long after 1200 both in England and in France (Vincennes), even though at about that date, in the France of the royal demesne and those provinces which he had acquired from John of England, Philip Augustus was raising cylindrical donjons in his castles like a trade-mark or a sign of royal lordship (Chateaudun, Gisors, Falaise, Chinon, Rouen, Lillebonne, Verneuil, Dourdan). On the other hand, in France we find the cylindrical form at least from the early twelfth century and from a date before some of the finest twelfth-century rectangular keeps were built.
Thus Freteval, near Vendome and in the county of Blois, though it may not retain its traditional date of 1040, yet cannot be more than a century later. Again the round keep on the motte of Chateau-sur-Ept on the borders of Normandy is attributed to Henry I (duke of Normandy & King of England) and to a date of c.1130-35. The same Henry I is responsible for the great rectangular keeps of Caen, Falaise, Arques and Domfront in Normandy, and clearly cannot have regarded those as obsolescent when he built them. Further, the peculiarly shaped keeps at Houdan and Etampes, for example, which are transitional between square and round but, rather, derivations from the latter - the one cylindrical with cylindrical buttresses, the other quadrilobe - are both given dates in the first half of the twelfth century (1100-1125 and 1130-50 respectively).
In England, as in ducal Normandy (though there Conches is a further twelfth century example), the cylindrical type of donjon seems never to have become very popular. Most examples are to be found in Wales and the Marches - Bronllys (c.1176), Longtown (c. 1180-95), Pembroke (c. 1200), Tretower and Skenfrith (both early 13th C) amongst others - but not all, for we have Conisborough (c. 1180) in Yorkshire, Barnard Castle 9c. 1200), in County Durham and Launceston - early to mid 13th C.
end of quote.
We managed to visit Bronllys, Skenfrith & Tretower last week, and have visited Pembroke in the past.
Perhaps something of interest there?
Will check further for you.

Cheers Peter

posted 04-14-2008 04:17 AM            

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Peter, I sure would like to have a copy!
Do you know when they altered the towers of the Aurelian wall?

Here in Zurich the romans built a castellum under emperor Valentinian I. († 375) with 10 towers, some of them with rounded outside-fronts.

posted 04-17-2008 04:29 PM            

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Interesting question. In the Netherlands the first stone castles were roundshaped (fine examples the castle of Leiden, and the old castle at Egmond). Later on they became rectangular. However when round castle towers appear in the Netherland, I do not know, while thinking over it, I can remember more and more examples in the Netherlands (Both Muiderslot and Brederode had round shaped castle towers, besides rectangular towers). But since when exactly, probaly also from around the 1300s.

ipflo